E11: Trusting Your Instincts and Finding Authenticity in the Entertainment Industry with Audrey Rosenberg

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Shes Big Time Now, a podcast for women who are refusing to play small. My guest today is Audrey Rosenberg. Audrey is a Peep-Adie award-winning and emin nominated producer who has dedicated her career to using storytelling to create social change.

[00:00:18] She co-founded invisible pictures, a new-are-based woman-led production company that was in operation for more than five years and received national acclaim for its films, including the 2022 HBO documentary Katrina Babies. Audrey has several new exciting projects in the works, including a TV series starring Sharon Stone

[00:00:39] and a broad female comedy film, Audrey is a member of the television Academy, the producers Guild of America and the documentary producers Alliance, and is on the board of New York Women and Film and Television, which advocates for inclusion and media and supports women

[00:00:54] at every stage of their careers. With her extensive experience in producing films such as Katrina Babies, Bull, Long Weekend Traders and the TV series Soul City, Audrey is a true inspiration to its spiring producers.

[00:01:08] On the show she shares why you need to do internal work and truly know who you are to be successful in the film industry, how films can be a powerful tool for social change, how not trusting

[00:01:20] her gut has been disastrous in her career, and why perseverance will always pay off. Even if the outcome is not what you expect it, let's get into the show. I'm so excited to have Audrey on the show.

[00:02:00] I met her when she was producing Katrina Babies and I was so impressed with her. You know, it's not often that you get to meet a powerhouse, producer who's doing the thing and so I said I had to have you on the show, Audrey.

[00:02:15] So thank you so much for joining us on She's Big Time Now. Joy, I cannot be more happy to be talking to you and right back at you. I was so thrilled that you were part of our publicity team for Katrina Babies.

[00:02:26] It really meant a lot to have you on the team. Yes, so I love to be able to share other people's journeys because I feel like we've learned so much and can be inspired into our own next path.

[00:02:38] So one of the things I wanted to start with is I ask people, what do you feel was the secret behind your success? I mean, you're in a war-winning producer. What do you think it was? Let's say the secret behind my success.

[00:02:53] I mean, I think that for me a big part of it was self-awareness and growing over time, learning what I was good at and what I wasn't good at and being a piece with that, I think that sort of is how I would define a woman of authority,

[00:03:11] which is that you don't have to be good at everything. And when you start to discover what you are good at and you really lean into it, you realize that that's what collaboration is about.

[00:03:22] You can find other people who are good at the things that you're not good at and power them. And so I would say that's probably been the most helpful. I don't know if there's like a real secret,

[00:03:34] then I hope I'm still building a ton of success, but also authenticity. I love that because I think that is really key when you talk about about holding your talent because in realizing what you are truly gifted at.

[00:03:47] Because I imagine there's a lot of people think, I want to be a producer. You know, I can do this but not really realizing where does the talent lie? So when did you realize you had talent and how did you even figure that out?

[00:04:00] So I think I was really a natural producer in a lot of ways. I learned over time that even though I consider myself an artist and I am a creative producer, absolutely, by trade, I had a certain like Hutspa,

[00:04:18] like a certain sort of don't take no for an answer. I would say one of the things that defines producing for me is making the what seems impossible possible. And so I learned that at many different moments in my life,

[00:04:33] but I would say kind of early on, I did some theater work and I interned and I learned, and I could just see that I had a knack for what were the skills that a producer needed. And I trained as an actor.

[00:04:48] I think that made me a better producer. It opened me up. I did movement work. I love actors. I think that a lot of producers don't love actors and that's a shame. So I was able to learn compassion and empathy for their craft and incredible respect for it

[00:05:05] by training as an actor. I'm not sad that I'm not an actor. It wasn't my path. It wasn't meant to be, but I was juggling creative, what did it mean to be a creative person and a producer and then I married the two?

[00:05:19] Oh, I was like, oh, I'm a creative producer. So it's worked for me for a lot of years though. I'm in a big transition at the moment. And so I want to also go back to kind of how you became inspired

[00:05:31] to go into this because a lot of people, I always like to figure out how did you find that path. What was the inspiration for you to first say, maybe I'm an actor as maybe I'm a producer, but I know there's something there.

[00:05:44] So I'll try to be brief. I think first of all, I read James Baldwin when I was 15 and it changed my life, truly. I really read all of his work, his novels and then I also read essays and the fire next time.

[00:05:59] I connect with me because I was already thinking about social change a lot. How does change come about? Social justice. This was very much in my wheelhouse and something that I cared about, even as a young person.

[00:06:12] And I also was interested in the arts and understood the power of entertainment. And so what happened out of that, which was that I always wanted to be a producer of projects that had social impact or the potential for social change.

[00:06:27] I majored in that in college, so I created an individual major called theater film and its relationship to social change. What I would say for me was that there was a felt to me like an

[00:06:41] urgent need for consciousness healing on the planet and with all the humility of course, does a film change your life? Well, maybe not the way some direct service does but you never know how somebody being represented changes their life. How much it gets into our consciousness,

[00:07:02] how much time people spend watching things and how it may change how somebody thinks about something or an action that they may have taken or an action that they now want to take because it can inspire.

[00:07:13] And so that was really the motivation for me it was reaching large numbers of people. That is huge the impact, you know that you were drawn to this ability to make an impact. And what kind of impact have you seen from some of the stuff that you've done?

[00:07:29] I know you did Katrina Babies which was phenomenal, you know documenting the children who were impacted by Hurricane Katrina. I mean very compelling. So when you think about the power of story telling and the impact that you see, what have you experienced personally with that?

[00:07:48] I mean I am hoping that I have a tremendous more to contribute to that conversation coming up. That's part of my transition is figuring out how to do what I care so deeply about in an even bigger

[00:08:01] way and like on a bigger scale. But I mean just some simple examples. I'm going to start in the documentary world because I think social impact has been going on in the documentary world for a while.

[00:08:15] I got to be involved in Dawn Quarters Film Trapped. We won the social impact film making a word at Sundance. It was the targeted regulation of abortion providers in the south and she did just incredible job documenting basically the way that they were overturning Roe V Wade without

[00:08:33] overturning Roe V Wade. And it was affecting you know poor black and brown women in the most of course. And by the time we got here, Trapped was a long time ago they had already over,

[00:08:45] you know they had already closed so many clinics and so the film was urgent. We had an impact plan and we helped you know the Supreme Court ruled in favor and I think that the film influenced it and

[00:08:59] that wasn't an incredible moment you know to be part of it. I mean I am not your Negro. You know come on that was a long overdue type of film where all Peck is an absolute master.

[00:09:12] I think the point you know using Baldwin to talk about race and to have hopefully white people wake up a little bit more about what this invention is, what what this racist invention is,

[00:09:28] which did not come from people of color but came from white people. It was just incredible and I mean that film was nominated for an Oscar and won so many awards and more importantly maybe or just

[00:09:40] as important. It really has an incredible educational life I think it creates dialogue everywhere globally because Roe was based in Paris and it had run on RTA and you know so that was a global Katrina baby is still going it's on HBOMax I hope people will watch it.

[00:10:01] You know one of the really special things about Katrina babies that I think also has really been a big part of my mission as I've been kind of curating my mission more and

[00:10:12] more getting more detailed about it was putting people with lived experience at the center of their own stories and authentic storytelling and authentic representation. And you will find film that's more

[00:10:22] authentic than that because these people had never been talked to they've never been asked what happened to them and our fearless director was 13 when Katrina hit and still suffers trauma from it on a

[00:10:36] address trauma and was brave enough to not particularly know what he was doing and it started interviewing people and it was an eight year process I mean by the time he came to me you know I

[00:10:46] don't know maybe we worked another two and half three years together but he had the access and the trust of a community that is underrepresented misunderstood not heard beautiful resilient incredible people who you don't always get to see on film and so it was an

[00:11:05] incredible privilege to produce it. It had a lot of challenges because it was so personal and I loved it you know challenges but they were worth it and I think if people see the film

[00:11:19] that they'll they'll agree they'll see that yes yeah and then really what I find super exciting is how to bring impact to the narrative space. It's good you know what's kind of hitting because

[00:11:30] there's so many directions I'm thinking here is you know questions I have I just have these questions to keep popping in my head but what spurred you to want to have social change because I see how

[00:11:42] you get to you know using you know film to do that but where did this come about was this something you experienced as a child that you were like I'm passionate about social causes and

[00:11:53] this is just a vehicle which I'm blown away by that this is a vehicle that you're using to impact the world into impact change but where did that desire come from? So when I was three I told my

[00:12:06] aunt that I was an old soul so I'm gonna start with that as you know some context whether you believe in past lives or old soul or whatever which I do I think that that contributes to you know

[00:12:21] the depth of my feelings about justice and social justice and how you know how the world is and improving the lives of people and trying to emulate suffering or at least it's worth it today

[00:12:36] somehow and my father would say that I came out saying everything was unfair and that somehow I had a real sense of justice you know like I have had like a justice through lime you know in a big way

[00:12:49] and I was not quiet about it and I think you know I found ways you know I'll give you an example in high school I had a friend who was an incredible leader he was all American soccer player

[00:13:04] he was incredibly smart African American and we sort of connected and we went to the history department in our high school and said and sought to try to change the Eurocentric nature of

[00:13:18] the history that it was being taught and we were not received well you know and so I think that I had some connection to these larger issues and the suffering of other people and sort of this

[00:13:33] and listen I'm Jewish yeah and you know I think sometimes Jewish people don't want to talk in these days especially about our own history of you know I don't know oppression being hunted down

[00:13:47] those kinds of things so what I mean back to say about that is two things one is that it's in my DNA as a as a Jewish woman two I identify very strongly with that ethically and there's something in

[00:14:01] in the Jewish religion called Tikina-Lan which means repair the world and so I was raised I would say ethnically with the notion that you provide service you have to care you have to care about people

[00:14:16] you have to care about the world that is incredible because here you are I'm listening to this and I'm like blown away because here you are through your soul you feel like you're an old soul

[00:14:26] you're drawn to social justice and you read James Baldwin and you're like ha! Words, works of performance all of that has an impact and here he is gone but he's still impacting people

[00:14:41] and if I could do that through film I found it. Yes that's so cool. Yes and I'll add on to that that people with at the Oscars like Tim Robbins and Susan Surandon for example like when I was a

[00:14:56] kid even Oliver Stone films had like a deep impact on me you know obviously so to Spike Lee so did so many other incredible filmmakers and soon we'll be listing many, many more women on that list

[00:15:08] but I think when people used to use their platform to speak out about issues or there was a film that had an issue related to it it really was so much more interesting to me than the glitz in the

[00:15:22] way working in this business is a privilege it's also incredibly difficult and competitive and so people who are listening who want to do it you have to be a little crazy I mean you

[00:15:32] you have to really really want to do this because it's you know there's nothing about it that is as tangible as certain other careers I've talked to other people about it but if you love it

[00:15:47] and you should absolutely do it and find your way of doing it. That I mean I'm so fascinated by that's because well what you said just a moment ago that really touched me is said it's incredibly

[00:15:57] competitive I've had friends who've tried to break into it and they're like I go to film festivals I do this and what am I doing wrong how do I get a mentor how do I break in so when you think about

[00:16:08] people who are spiring you know you were younger when you came in you were in your 20s you know you had the internships but what about people who say at some kind of my life maybe I'm in midlife and

[00:16:18] I feel this desire to want to do this is there a way to get in how do you begin to open those doors to experience and see if this is really for you. So there's a few things I mean I cannot I have to

[00:16:33] acknowledge my way privilege I mean I have to because it is still an issue that we this is I hope people are reading Gina Prince's lifewoods article about woman king this is an over because all

[00:16:48] of a sudden everyone decided to prioritize equity and inclusion for a minute by the way the same thing is true of a woman so I am a woman and that also sometimes is harder but what I would say

[00:17:00] in relation to your question is that I really believe that if you love this and you want to do it there are ways to break in and one thing to do is to join New York Women in Film and Television.

[00:17:13] I'm on the board I love that organization I am so proud to be on the board we have real mentoring and networking you know opportunities for people the board is like completely awesome and

[00:17:27] diverse and really cares about people and a lot of us are invested in the chapters all over the country right they do because we have won a Nashville right that's right so it's I would suggest

[00:17:38] joining New York Women in Film and Television for sure I also would would say do tons of research look at what programs there are look at what grants there are look at how to get into anyone

[00:17:51] that's providing opportunities for you to meet people in the industry where there is kind of networking where there's anything this is a tough one but I'm gonna recommend it anyway in turning so I did I was not you know independently wealthy enough to but I interned for free

[00:18:08] for a short time and then I got paid very little as an assistant and I kind of built my way up but sometimes if you can find ways to be in rooms and meet people and be in the industry and find out

[00:18:24] is this for you and what part of it do you like do you love being an executive you love development to you just want to produce like I do which is that way kind of unusual in some ways the way

[00:18:35] that I came up as I kind of never worked for anyone I mean which we can talk about as both a good saying and a regret I had a very independent spirit and I think a lot of that was wonderful and

[00:18:45] some of it I think was psychologically not the best but back to your question it's so important to stay grounded because it's such an elitist and tough business to be successful in if you don't

[00:19:00] have the internal work if you're not working on yourself if you're not in therapy if you're not meditating if you're not good luck honestly because for me you know I still have my days where I'm like

[00:19:12] what is that line of thinking coming from that is no no no no no even though you've done all these big things for 20 something years you know you still have that thinking that will pop up the

[00:19:23] sake can you do this are you really that good well you keep using the word big and I'm going to be honest with you like because I think this will help other people I'm like I guess what is she talking

[00:19:34] about you know and this is very female also you know it's like you know have I I'm never enough you know there always has to be more what is big mean you know in my life I think there's so much

[00:19:47] more to do so but but on that note something that I've learned very recently is if you do not stop and notice your success and acknowledge yourself and really take in that you're building something

[00:20:02] and that it takes time and that sometimes it's invisible before it becomes realized you're not going to make it because it's exhausting and you're looking for the external validation results and all

[00:20:17] of these other things and really art is about you know nobody owns art you know art comes from inside it's and then it's this incredible thing that can create collaboration and storytelling it has been happening for centuries and tribes and you know everyone has storytelling and there's

[00:20:38] a reason for it and so my point is have your perspective no no have to stay with yourself who are you you know don't forget who you are don't soak don't try to be anybody else like comparing is like

[00:20:55] I think so natural and human to do and then I would say stop stop comparing girl you are dropping all kind of gyms but the two like I can just sit in different steps and tell me more tell me more

[00:21:10] so tell me more but you know when I thought about the external validation that's so good because how many years would you say you worked or you've before you really felt like people recognized the talent

[00:21:23] in I think so I'm going to tell you in my case I think that I knew that I had what I had what it took to do it and I think that I knew I had talent but what I was accustomed to was

[00:21:41] working for it, working for everything instead of being it so I was working so hard all the time I was driven and driven and work a hallic and you know sometimes tunnel vision and

[00:22:01] I think sometimes that prevented me from seeing and taking in some of the smaller things that were helping me build to the self-esteem and the confidence and the understanding of you know you are

[00:22:13] successful you you've done things you know what you're doing because that was the day one one day I was like wait on the boss that's not happening you know it was like very funny I was

[00:22:25] like wait a second I'm older than a lot of these people you know it's sort of just happens like you sort of you're working so hard and you're doing these things and then I feel like there's a moment

[00:22:35] where you're like oh I'm at the top of my game in terms of my skills I'm at the top I know how to do this this is that's so exciting and whoa how did that happen you like I said you know people are asking me

[00:22:47] so I'm the boss but I'm joking on one hand and not on the other and I think again it's so much about like I cannot advertise more for like self-improvements and I don't mean it in some kind of

[00:23:01] canned way like in woo woo way it is hard to be human it is not easy to be in a human body then you're taking on an industry where it's even more challenging for many many different reasons

[00:23:14] and all totally possible also and I think it requires real self insight and grounding and as good and we never entirely know who we are because we're always learning our whole lives but for me authenticity is so key because you can't face certain things right you have to

[00:23:38] well I have to go back to something you said because when you said working for it versus being it like how do you know the difference because there's like this part of us I think people are really

[00:23:50] driven I feel like I'm one of those people that I've like I got to do this I'm like so driven but at the same time there is a piece and a flow when you say being it so can you help us

[00:24:02] unpack that like how can I really want to unpack that for some people yes absolutely and I have to tell you that I had no patience when I was younger none I'm still not that patient but

[00:24:13] I had no patience and I had no patience for process and that was actually a real problem it was a huge problem in acting and then it was a problem in what we're talking about and so what I'm

[00:24:24] about to say is that like being it has to do with knowing your safe trusting your instincts and your intuition and learning how to listen to that again women get so confused between their

[00:24:37] anxiety and their intuition because we're socialized to forget how powerful we are and how much we actually know things without doing all of this headwork you know some information comes from your head a lot of information comes from your heart a lot of information comes from being quiet

[00:24:54] and listening to things or however comes to you when you're looking at projects and you're deciding what you want to take on and you're even deciding because you told us you're in a place of pivoting

[00:25:06] or kind of finding your next how much of it is listening to your gut and how was that benefited you I mean I can tell you both stories I mean for me now I've really learned to trust my God in my instinct

[00:25:20] so it's a big big part of my decision making and and so is having parameters so so I learn from experiences and then I set up like moths this experience must have this or must not have that or

[00:25:35] and there are six of them and if if the thing has one of the things I can't do it and that's a way of setting boundaries for myself I learned this from an incredible teacher called Marilyn

[00:25:46] Graman it's a way of and she wrote this incredible book about feminine power and it's a way of having boundaries which I think is very difficult for people certainly women and in my life has been a challenge

[00:25:58] over the years to figure out like why is this soft on your boundaries like you're clear why it just being clear um and why you keep giving if you if you could just set that boundary so

[00:26:10] I think that you know my intuition and my gut is huge and when I've gone against it it has been disastrous and I'm not and I'm not going to say lightly like it has been it has cost me

[00:26:27] it has cost me the projects don't work usually usually there's a problematic person somebody takes it down there's you know it's hard because I don't like the word hard about work and about

[00:26:41] the industry because that kind of just perpetuates the notion that so hard it's so hard and nobody has this nobody has developed the money nobody has it I might don't listen to people when they say that

[00:26:51] go find it go find it and you know there's some truths to industry chat and negativity and stuff like that that's useful for about five minutes but most of the time it's like reset yourself

[00:27:06] and trust your gut honestly and you know how the plan like know what matters to you you know one of the things that I would say was the biggest challenge for me as an independent producer with money

[00:27:19] and I was not focused enough on my own self care valuing myself properly and another thing this one in Maryland says is there's nobody out there so how I feel about myself is essentially how

[00:27:32] the world is treating me so for very long time you know I was working like a dog I was not making close to what I should have been making financially and I know you ask your guests to be very

[00:27:44] candid and so I I really thought about that joint I appreciated that you said that in preparation of like you know the way to share wisdom with people is to be a transparent yes and and sometimes

[00:27:56] vulnerable and and also like you know show the stuff that's not so pretty and I lived with family I had to move in with family for a couple of years mainly because I was so stubborn and there was

[00:28:11] no way that I was going to stop producing or stop doing my job and stop figuring it out and that's when I started the company because I got to a crossroads and crossroads are amazing they're scary

[00:28:25] you know who likes the unknown right but they also can lead you to really really deep important places I have to face myself I'm like you're not you're not supporting yourself properly

[00:28:36] you're not making enough money I wasn't and I had at one time wanted to write an article about being poor on the red carpet because it was so the contrast was incredible I was in Venice

[00:28:49] once and it was like all this glamour and red carpet and I thought oh my god like you know just because I'm in association with it just because I'm affiliated and by the way that's a privilege and it was

[00:29:01] amazing and I was you know in its proximity did not mean that it trickle down no and I have other friends who we talk about that a lot you know it's very um seductive and there's a lot of money

[00:29:15] around but it doesn't mean that the people doing the work are always making it that's good that's like a that's so transparent Audrey because I think a lot of people think like once I get in

[00:29:26] and I you know I'm all the red carpet that I'm going to be making the money and I'm going to be doing the thing but I love your transparent to that you said for a couple of years you slept on a couch

[00:29:37] or you know oh I was with family and I was slapping bags I mean my friends will tell you like Audrey always had a suitcase you know I stayed with my brother in New Jersey and sometimes with

[00:29:47] my dad in the city and I was all I mean it was uncomfortable listen there's way worse circumstances than that right but the fact that you had perseverance I mean this is what I think people even need

[00:30:00] to hear who are thinking about this because you believed in yourself so much and you had the desire to make social impact so much that giving up was never in action and I'll tell you something else you

[00:30:14] know I have really learned to appreciate every aspect of the business everything that everybody doesn't the business and I'm believing when I was younger I judged I was defensive I don't like

[00:30:28] those agents I don't like this I don't like that which wasn't very helpful but it was self-protective and now again this is so important look at what people are doing and figure out if you can

[00:30:41] picture yourself doing it and if the answer is yes there's nothing wrong with it it means that it's a match for you there's no there's not something that's better than something else in my case

[00:30:52] I have never been an executive I have never been in corporate culture I have never I have done it all independently like truly you know I think that there's wonderful aspects that in some crazy ones

[00:31:06] it was definitely my path and I used to say like oh can you just get to the point like exactly you know I was so much more direct and I was so that I didn't have a boss you know and I didn't

[00:31:17] have pressures that they had and I didn't have compassion for them and I didn't understand what that job was and what I realized is that like when you start to understand who you are you also can make space

[00:31:30] for other people to be who they are because you can't have this business without everybody Audrey it's huge I will suggest people to people that being mission driven is extremely important

[00:31:45] you know I look out at the industry a lot and I hear the answer we want good stories we want good content like what does that mean you know I don't know what to bring you I don't so I think

[00:31:57] having a sense of what really turns you on in a sense or is what you want even if it's broad it allows people to connect with you and your vision and what you're doing and I think in this

[00:32:09] industry that's really important it's hard if you have commitment issues which I have had in the past of like I can't do this and then I can't do that it's not restricting you the negative way just

[00:32:20] like in a screenplay you know rules and restrictions sometimes set you free sometimes how will you tell a better story same thing with your business you know have some parameters have

[00:32:31] some sense if you are so other people can know as well so I am in the process of being independent again which was a bit unexpected I have a slated projects that I'm extremely excited about

[00:32:43] and I am for rang into writing and directing wow so part of what I learned from all of this and I kept saying to that I was creative and producer was that if I in my authentic sort of journey

[00:33:01] with myself what I've discovered is that if I only produce then I'm not going to be sharing my whole self with all of you and that's not what I'm here for my life purpose is not only to produce even

[00:33:12] though I will continue to produce right I love producing and I care about content and I certainly I feel like I have the humility and the care to want to produce other people's work it's not that

[00:33:22] I don't but I haven't been sharing a big part of myself directly with the industry and that was like really how did you figure that out it was so painful in some ways by being angry

[00:33:34] I mean really by being angry and frustrated sometimes I think by feeling like I was focusing on how much producers are being underappreciated and not valued and not realizing that part of my frustration even though that's very true about producers it can be thankless and difficult

[00:33:56] is that I was shadow artistic a little bit I was sort of I was contributing a lot to the creative and not getting credit for it because it wasn't necessarily appropriate for me to get credit for

[00:34:08] it and or you know I wasn't fully doing it whatever this thing is I did get a writing credit on Katrina Babies with Bach and Luther and that was special to me that really meant something to me

[00:34:22] when people look back over your journey from all that you've done from sacrificing to making it to doing the great work that you've done what do you hope they learn from your story what do you

[00:34:34] hope they take away that could impact their own journey figure out who you are you know I think I think I mean first of all I hope the work inspires people so I hope that people will look back and say wow

[00:34:48] you know what about you've worked you know that that made an impact that took some suffering away from people in the world or that shifted something in a big way or in a small way or you know

[00:34:59] that movie when I saw it you know that that had an impact on me or that changed my friends life I mean I am always really inspired when people acknowledge the power of the storytelling and the art

[00:35:11] it's not just you know it has to be good if that's how the impact happens so I would say the quality of my work I hope that people will admire and then I hope people will look at me and maybe say

[00:35:25] oh like feminine power really matters like figuring out what that means to find your own version of feminine power because the world's very out of balance and I was out of balance and so I had to learn how to kind of harness my

[00:35:42] feminine energy and balance it out with my master and we have both so I hope that that helps people I think there's a way to sort of be very powerful in that and also

[00:35:54] again I know I keep saying authenticity but it's like keep mining the gold inside yourself and and really don't underestimate like self-care and self-love and I know that sounds cliche it's taking me way too long to honestly even be able to say those words please to say self-love

[00:36:14] and I'm like oh what are you talking about that is so annoying oh my god ew you know and then it became very clear to me that it's kind of the key to everything because as I said before

[00:36:28] how I'm treating myself how I feel about myself how I care about myself is how the world is going to reflect back to me not all the time not in every single circumstance but in many ways it is that simple

[00:36:40] my final question I always like to ask people was what was the best piece of advice that you've gotten in this industry I mean my head gets flooded with very many funny things and people who sort of

[00:36:53] I don't know if I use the word mentor here and there they mentored me or something but I goes back to an acting teacher that I had I think his name was Fred Caram and

[00:37:02] he taught a class in Carnegie Hall which was so cool and he said to thine own self-betrill and you know I thought of it today because because I was like you know did I really know what he meant

[00:37:15] you know back then when I was so young but it grew the notion of that grew for me and I think that's very simple statement to thine own self-betrill is so important because it it it it

[00:37:30] it's how we prevent herd mentality and violence and you know it it's how people end up standing up for one another or speaking out or really even knowing for themselves what works for them

[00:37:44] what doesn't you know what's right or wrong for them and and also as an artist like it's not about being rich and famous and good because you're not going to be good if you're trying

[00:37:56] you're not going to be good it's you know exceptional work creativity you have to be willing to fall on your face you have to be willing to not be good and admired and loved for it you have to let it

[00:38:09] come out if you authentically and see what happens and I've been craft matters and you know obviously and being exceptional in your work matters but it also really comes from that statement to

[00:38:21] thine own self-betrill in my life. What was your biggest aha moment from today show for me? It was the importance of having patience in the process oh that's so good let me say that again

[00:38:33] having patience in the process it's so hard to do when you have big dreams and you feel like it should happen now and when you feel like it's not happening soon enough you may feel invisible.

[00:38:45] Audrey said that in that that really resonated with me that sometimes we feel invisible because you know we wanted to happen faster we want to be recognized for the work that we're doing but

[00:38:55] Audrey's a reminder that success can take time and it can pay off if you don't give up. If you were inspired by the women you hear my podcast please share this with the friend,

[00:39:05] subscribe to the show and leave us a review your support will help more people find us to learn more about our guests visit she'sbigtimenow.com thank you for listening