E8: When to Give Away Your Services for Free with Jamie Greenberg

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Shes Big Time Now, a podcast for women who are refusing to play small. My guest today is Jamie Greenberg. Jamie is one of Hollywood's most indispensable makeup artists and a highly sought after beauty personality.

[00:00:16] Her work is seen on red carpets, advertisements and is often featured in editorials for allure. L Cosmopolitan, Hurpitz Bazaar, and more. Some of her celebrity clients have included Tracy Ellis Ross, Chelsea Handler, Lizzie Campbellen, and Rashida Jones, just to name a few.

[00:00:36] For unique voice within the industry, he has also led to many guest appearances on Good Morning America, Pop Sugar, and Across the Beauty Blogosphere. And 2020, she launched her first cosmetic line. On the show, she shares how a random job at Ulta sparked her desire to become a makeup

[00:00:55] artist, how volunteering her services when others would not open many doors in her career and led to big opportunities. How she's dealt with projection from celebrities and how she launched her very own cosmetic line. Let's get into the show. Welcome Jamie to the show, Jamie.

[00:01:40] You know, a lot of people hear about people like you, like celebrity makeup artists, people who have their own cosmetic line, people who are doing the thing and they never have a chance to talk to you.

[00:01:50] So I'm really excited to be able to introduce you to our audience and kind of pick your brain and get to learn a little bit more about what you do and just some of the inspiration that you can give to our ladies who are going to be joining.

[00:02:01] So welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. This is so fun. Yes, there is like girlfriend time. You know, I can to talk to you. And I'm like, tell me all the secrets. I'll tell you everything. I'm nothing to hide.

[00:02:13] Like I'm like telling all the secrets. Well, one of the questions I like to start out with on the show is it's really about uncovering the secret behind your success and why some people make it big and others do not.

[00:02:26] So the first question I want to ask you is, why do you think you have been so successful? You know, in what you've been able to do as a celebrity makeup artist and just, you know,

[00:02:38] influencer and all of those things, what would you say is the secret to it? I think there's a two-parter. And I think the first part is never giving up and I know that sounds so cliche, but it's

[00:02:48] true because there were a lot of doors in face in the beginning, you know? So never giving up with an also bringing a very high vibration to wherever I'm going, a positive attitude. I really think that that gets you so far. People like to be around the light.

[00:03:08] So if you bring the light. I love it. Everyone's attracted to it, you know? So I didn't even realize I had the power until I got a little older and started to learn about that kind of stuff and that energy thing. And it's true.

[00:03:25] Like, you know, every time I just had a job before I set down with you and I loved these girls. I was like, wow, this is awesome and I'm just like, like a tracks like, you know?

[00:03:35] Once you are like tuned into that, it really does happen like that. No, I love that because that's so true and even the way you show up. You know, causes people to have a reaction to you and how they respond to you and a lot

[00:03:49] of times we don't even realize that. And we don't realize like you said the impact of that. And have you seen just that energy open doors just from you being in a room? Absolutely. I mean, I remember in particular, I was an assistant.

[00:04:04] I was, I had been working in retail for probably around four years and I went to this event with this celebrity makeup artist. And there was a bunch of executives that wanted to have their makeup done. And they asked me if I would do it.

[00:04:21] They asked me in this other assistant if we would do it. And the other assistant said, well, if they're not paying us, I'm not doing it. And I was like, I'll do it. I ended up having the best time with these women.

[00:04:31] I didn't have anything to my name. I didn't have a book, nothing. I just worked retail and these women, one of them was the president of Mark Makeup, which was Avon's like younger line and she's like, we're going to sign you as our makeup artist.

[00:04:44] And I'm like, what? Whoa. Yeah, I was like, I got home like went to like Costco to develop film. That's how long or something. This one. You guys don't know what film is but something. I don't remember. I remember.

[00:04:58] But that is such a cool experience that you showed up and also you were willing to give, you know, you were willing to give in that moment. And it led to opportunities. Everything was like that.

[00:05:11] Like everything in my career was like, now I'm older and I get a vibe, whether or not I want to do it. And I've served my time. So I feel like I can pick and choose now. But for the first, I would say 15 years.

[00:05:24] I was literally just like, this could be worth it. This could be worth it. This could be worth it. And it is. And even when it's not worth it, you learn more about yourself. Like I should have known better when they said there was no electricity.

[00:05:37] You know what? I definitely gave a lot. My whole career started in Ulta and then I went from Ulta to Blooming Dales. I worked at Blooming Dales. And then from there I freelance. So I would just be in different stores.

[00:05:53] And then after that is when, you know, I was starting to get little things here and there, there's a lot of debate over social networks about giving away your goods for free. But back then that's how you got ahead.

[00:06:06] You go, you do something and then you hope it leads to something else. Giving was a big part. And how things used to be in the industry. Tell me about how things used to be in the industry and how you use that tactic of

[00:06:19] giving to open other doors for you. And do you still think it can be relevant today? Yeah, I mean there is a lot of debate over social media about giving away your goods for free.

[00:06:30] And I do feel though back in the day like you're given a lot of opportunities that may be paid nothing or they'd give you free product for the job or whatever it was or but there's always this potential to meet somebody to click with someone and then they

[00:06:47] recommend like it's all word of mouth in the beginning. And I do feel like all those situations really got me to wear I am today and I, you know, I work with a lot of jazzy and none of them want to do anything for free.

[00:07:02] I mean, you can't even get an intern now. You have to pay intern from the state of California. I know back in the days you'd be like, oh, don't forget. And it is so different now.

[00:07:12] You're right, everybody thinks that they have to be paid to do anything even when they don't have any experience. And do you think that is a hindrance to people trying to come in to the field now?

[00:07:24] Especially in the beauty industry when there's a lot of competition and it's an opportunity to show what you can do or do we just feel like we know our value now? Yeah, I know. It's, it's just, I don't know.

[00:07:36] Like I don't, I'm impressed when I find people that want to do go the extra mile and have initiative and feel like hard work is still going to be, you know, recognized. And I think there's, like, I don't know, it's like, it's a fine line between laziness

[00:07:53] and knowing your works. It's a fine line. Ooh, there is that fine line. You said, how do you determine, you know, when you should maybe give your services or to get your foot in the door versus saying, hey, I know my value at this point and

[00:08:09] I don't want to give it away for free because as you mentioned back in the day, many of us, I interned a didn't get paid. I know that's changed now. I mean, I interned for a whole summer at a television station had to pay my own room,

[00:08:22] had to get a car to get there, made no money but it led to my first television job. So that's how we used to do it. So what are your thoughts on that? That's right. I did the same thing.

[00:08:33] I was trying to get in film and television too. That's what I thought I wanted to do and I did the same exact thing you did. If it seems to you, if it's something that speaks to you and you're like, let's say

[00:08:43] you want to be a dental hygienist. Whatever it is that you want to do, if you get an opportunity to actually be in the arena, I say do, like give it away not every time but like if you can get in certain places by

[00:08:58] being a student so to speak, you will, it will pay off. So true. And I think life has proven that for me as I was just sharing. So I think that's really huge because you talked about here, you started older, you know,

[00:09:13] you go to blooming dails but it's amazing to me and I'm interested to see how this even happened. But how do you go from working retail to now working with celebrity clients? What was that transition moment was an introduction like, you know, we see the people

[00:09:29] you know if the counter is working but you took it to the next level. It was kind of two things. So when I was working at the counter because if you bring your high vibration and you

[00:09:38] talk to everybody and you look at people and treat everybody nicely, not that I was always shining in the lightest light. They definitely have my down days or like, you know, rude customers and stuff. It is retail after all but you meet people. So I met a producer.

[00:09:56] He was like, do you want to do reality television? I was like, I met somebody that taught at a beauty school. So I had these side gigs where I would go teach at this beauty school in Chino Hills

[00:10:08] and you know, it was kind of faking it till I made it. You know, and then I was got on this reality show. I literally was like, I'm done. I made it. I have reached the peak of my career.

[00:10:19] It was called Nanny 911 and I did the nannies and it was like we traveled. You know, I was like young and it was so much fun. Oh my god, that sounds amazing.

[00:10:30] And I was like, I'm done and then I wanted to pick up more freelance hours and you were only gave me like 20 hours a week. So my husband was looking at Craigslist and there was an ad that said they were looking

[00:10:42] for a part time salesperson for this beauty line. He's like, this is great. You should go interview him when I went to interview it was with Jillian Dempsey who's a celebrity makeup artist.

[00:10:53] And when I walked in from the interview, I saw all these pictures of celebrities and I thought to myself, I never even saw it about it. Never even thought about it. Whoa. And I was like, this is cool. Like what a fun genre to be in, you know?

[00:11:09] That I started assisting her and then one thing led to another, I persisted in following up with her agency, always being like, if anybody else needs help, if anyone else needs me to get their dry cleatages, you're like, whatever you need. I used to do it all.

[00:11:27] I mean, dry cleaning babysitting like the makeup artists, you know? Whoa, that's deep. I know. I mean, now it's like you can't do that. It worked. It really worked. Take me back to your very first big celebrity. You know, you're doing this. Can you say who it was?

[00:11:44] Because I know that a times we can't say, but tell me about your very first big celebrity when you kind of got that break. Because I know you're working with somebody else who's doing it and you're like, oh, maybe I can do this.

[00:11:54] So the first person I did was a man. I had just gotten back, I was getting off the plane from a vacation and I had a bunch of texts and a bunch of voicemails and it was a friend that I went to college with and

[00:12:06] he was like, hey, are you around tomorrow? We need makeup for Lionel Richie. What? Yeah. And my dad was like the biggest light or richy fan in the world who isn't a Lionel Richie fan. I know, I know, I know.

[00:12:21] I was like, I got so excited but then I also got so nervous and was like, I can't do this. I can do it. And I was like, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. I'll do it. It's like, call back. I'm like, did you find anyone yet?

[00:12:35] No, they're like, great. Meet us here tomorrow at this time. You'll just touch them up for an interview and I was like, okay, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. I was so nervous and when I got there, I mean, I couldn't have been one nervous.

[00:12:46] It was like, so nerve wracking. And then he gets there, comes in with his assistant, the wardrobe. He's like, so nice to me. I just like do a little this and a little of that. And he couldn't have been lovely or. And it was like, I could breathe.

[00:13:04] And I was like, okay, he's a human. We're all, it's fine. And I listened to his interview and I would like touch him up when he got shiny. But it was like such a great intro to the world because it was so lovely.

[00:13:16] And so it's definitely like, okay. And then the second one, the first woman I got was, well, she was a young lady at the time her name is Katrina Boat and she was on that show 30 rock. Oh, yeah.

[00:13:30] The blonde cute and she was doing, she was not, the show was not many for a sag. So it was a red carpet for a sag. It was my first time. And I was like, and again, so nervous, freaked out, did her.

[00:13:41] She went to the carpet and then you sit and you watch the internet to look at pictures. Make sure everything you did looks good because you never know how it's going to turn out. So that was super nerve wracking. She ended up like everything was great.

[00:13:56] She ended up like texting me and saying, like, hey, I left. I'm your lipstick at the front desk of the hotel. And I was like back then I had a hold on to everything. I had now I give it away.

[00:14:06] But so I went to pick it up and she had less me a tip which is like unheard of. And I know that was like, thank you. I felt so beautiful. And I was like, I love this job.

[00:14:15] But I will say for the first like two years of doing celebrities, I usually would have to pull over at like a diner and go to the bathroom before. We went in. Because you would just have to get yourself together. My nerves.

[00:14:27] I was like, I was so nervous. And I, and I not so much anymore, but I was such a people pleaser that I, like if it didn't go well, I'd be devastated. But that is incredible to have those surreal moments. And I can even visualize it with you.

[00:14:41] I'm like, I see Lionel Richie sitting there. I see the team and everything. You know, and just to have those surreal moments because I want to go back to where this all kind of started for you. Was this a childhood dream to do makeup?

[00:14:54] Like how did you even find your way to make up? It's really weird. So I have an app who cuts hair and she lives in New York City and she used to be in like London and she opened the men's salon and for Vidal Sessoon.

[00:15:09] She's like my aunt, she never had kids. My aunt uncle, she was always like the cool aunt. And I always thought what she did was so it wasn't like whatever the else was doing. It was just something different. And I thought it was so cool.

[00:15:22] But I never really thought I could do that. I've always been into the arts very creative, but never knew where to place that energy and also growing up, you know, my mom of course would get ready and I would watch her and like play with all of herself.

[00:15:38] But she had a best friend who started doing makeup in salon and I would go to her house and my friend would get mad at me because she was like, you're just hanging out with my mom the whole time.

[00:15:49] But I'd go and have what she'd have all the crudals with all the makeup in it. And I'd be like playing with everything and it was so exciting to me. And I never thought like that was something that I could do.

[00:15:59] But it was always in the back of my head. So I went to film school and in film school used to do everybody's makeup but I was always like getting everybody ready in high school. I played college soccer and in high-square played soccer.

[00:16:10] But all the girls on my soccer team in high school would make fun of me because I had like red lipstick and red nails. So, why can't you see, you know, they can see your nails now through their so cute, they're like purple and white and everything.

[00:16:25] So you realized if you're looking back at your childhood, you're like I always had this kind of fast and mation with beauty. So what clicked for you that said, okay, I've had this fascination. Maybe I should try this. Maybe I could be good at it.

[00:16:41] How did that come about? I feel like the universe works in funny ways. We were living in New York, my husband and I. We just got married and he did not like his job. He was working in money and finance and stuff like that

[00:16:55] and I was working in film. And we were both like, is this it? Is this what we are doing now? We were not fulfilled and we were not happy. And my husband's like, let's get out of New York. Let's do something else. And I was like, all right,

[00:17:10] well I feel like the only other place we can go is like LA. And he's like, let's go to LA. We spent a summer in Pennsylvania before making the move out to LA and I was like, what am I gonna do with this time?

[00:17:24] I need to get a job. And I would go back and forth to the city a little but I couldn't have a, we didn't have a place in the city anymore. So one of my friends was like, you should get a job at Ulta.

[00:17:34] Like it's like a makeup place. It's like Sephora and I was like, okay, so I went in and I was like in my little suit with a resume. They were like, you're in the wrong place. We used to wear suits and you have resumes back in,

[00:17:48] oh no, you can't get me with the resume to Ulta. So hello. Yes, I need to tell you about myself. Exactly. My final facts and they were like, I got hired and I made like no money. Like maybe seven dollars an hour.

[00:18:05] I have to wake up once a week at 430 to unload the truck. It was not a pretty job but what was pretty is that you're surrounded by makeup all day and all these people would come in and train us like different brands with sand people to our store.

[00:18:18] I was really interested in that stuff and you would get free stuff all the time. They'd come in and be like, hey, we're here from pure. This is the 401 mineral powder. This is what it does and this is why people should use it

[00:18:32] and so they would give us the medication, give us free gratis. And then I'd be like, oh my God, I start using it on myself and love it and then I can sell it to anyone in the store.

[00:18:43] So it was like this great and I would just keep starting to collect all my makeup. I was like, it was like an addict. I was like a makeup jump. So then I started doing, I only knew really about bare minerals back then

[00:18:56] because I was kind of like the thing. And so this woman came in and she's like, I need all new makeup. I don't know what to do and I gave her a bare minerals makeover and she was so happy that that exchange changed the game for me.

[00:19:09] I was like, I love doing this. I love making people feel good. Like it's really great to be able to do that. So that's when I knew I was like, I'm gonna keep going. I'm gonna keep doing this. That is so interesting how life

[00:19:24] like just gives you opportunities and you didn't even realize it. You're just like, okay, we're taking a break. We're gonna go out to LA. Your friends like, you know what I mean? Time, just you love makeup. Get a job at all, ta?

[00:19:36] And you're like, okay, and here doing makeup on this one lady and this light bulb moment goes off for you and you're like, this is it. So when you think about that light bulb moment going off for you and where you are now, what goes through your mind?

[00:19:53] Did you have any idea on the path that you were about to embark on? You know it's so funny. And all my friends yell at me and I'm, I mean, I can say that I know that I try to own it a little bit more

[00:20:06] but in my mind, I'm still that girl. I'm still like, I haven't done it yet. You know, like, I feel like I know is that crazy. I mean, not even, not kidding. Don't know that I've done amazing things because I'm very, very grateful

[00:20:23] to part of me is I don't like, I never wear my resume on my sleeve. And I think, like it's saved me a long time to even be able to talk about that. But I find that, you know, if I go out with a group

[00:20:38] of friends and we're meeting someone else's group of friends that nobody knows, I'll never lead with what I do or anything. I just keep it on the, you know, the download and like just act like it is what it's a job.

[00:20:51] I don't know it, I'm conflicted because I don't know if it was because my mom was like, I had to be doing so many things. And so I don't know if it was the way I was raised.

[00:21:00] I don't know and I do try to celebrate more wins now because I know that it's amazing what I've done and I know every day I think God that I have this job. Somebody's I'm just driving, I'm like, I can't believe that I get to do this.

[00:21:14] Like, I'm not sitting in a cubicle. I'm not, I'm doing something that's feeding my soul. So yes and no and all of the above. But you don't necessarily see yourself as big time or you've made it big, it's kind of like in your mind

[00:21:27] you're like, well there's something else. There's always something else. Is that how you would describe it? Yes, there's always something, yeah, like I haven't, I don't feel like I've gotten to the top of a ladder. You think that's good, maybe that keeps you motivated

[00:21:40] because maybe if you felt like you'd arrived, you wouldn't keep showing up every day and challenging yourself. I think you're right. And I think it's also like, I like the, you know, I hear a lot of people talking about like just how much everything's changed. I like that.

[00:21:55] I think I've always liked that no matter what I was concentrating on, they're always seem to be like, you get a certain place and you're like, okay what's next? What are we doing next? And I think again, that was like my mom always been like, what's next?

[00:22:06] Okay, you volunteer at the Ronald McDonald House but you should also be volunteering at the JCC. Like there was, it was never enough. And I think that she had so much anxiety so she gave us that always be busy, always be doing something.

[00:22:20] So, but I will tell you that since I've par late into having my own product line, I find I love doing it. I love it so much and I really enjoy it and I feel like I'm at the bottom of that journey.

[00:22:35] So for me it's like I love my day job and I don't have a one-stop doing that because I really love the women I work with. I don't really do men anymore. Sorry, Lionel. You was a one-stop shop. Yeah, I want to have show.

[00:22:49] Now I have something else. It's like hobbies. It's like picking up, you know, is playing something new or learning to, any hobby, like learning a new sport and learning how to crochet, learning how to bake. It's something new to do and I really love it.

[00:23:07] And how did you even get there? Because I mean I understand and start out, we're talking about making it as a celebrity makeup artist and I can only imagine some of the celebrities you've worked with over the years. And then you're like, you know what?

[00:23:22] I think I can have my own product line. And me was this just something you have another light bulb moment or how did that even happen? Yeah, I feel like I always in the back of my head. I would look, you know, when I would be sitting at

[00:23:34] like blooming nails, you walk around and you're like playing with the latest Laura Mercier or the Bobby Brown or the, you know, I always would just be like, wow, these women, these pioneers, these women that like thought to make the line before anyone really, it's pretty cool.

[00:23:49] And I would think about it a lot and then to be honest, six years ago, maybe seven year, like seven years ago, I met someone in New York and we were gonna collab and make a line together and things just didn't work out.

[00:24:02] But I was always like, there's things that I make using other products to make a certain product. So like I should be making those products because you are like when you're looking at somebody's face you're like I don't have the right color blush.

[00:24:15] Let me mix this with a little bit of this and a while on. Exactly, that's how the blight leader came about because I take like a couple of high cream highlighters and a couple of cream blushes and I'd mix it together and make the blighter

[00:24:27] and then I was like why don't I just have that be my first product? Because everything's already out. You know, there's not much innovation. Maybe some like packaging innovation but as far as products go, it's a very, it's behind the time.

[00:24:40] It's like, I mean, I'm in the trenches and I'll tell you that like, I'm very like, I can't believe it's just very expensive and unless you have tons of money you can't really innovate that much. Well, it's gonna say tell me more about what makes your product line

[00:24:56] and what you have all in that because you're telling us a little bit about some of the products and what makes yours unique and why you felt like you had to do this. It wasn't just something you, you know, you started thinking about but you're like

[00:25:07] I've gotta do this. I know what works. I know what's easy to use. I'm not a very, I mean sometimes off-road fake lashes on my besides that I'm very minimal. I have three kids so that's like three more jobs

[00:25:21] and I feel like I don't have that much time to get myself together. So for me, that all went into making a product that's easy, multi-tasking and I wanted to have some fun with it and I also wanted to make it, there's so many lines now

[00:25:38] that's like 10 products to get a smokey eye. And I'm like, and for the average person we do not know what we're doing. Right? And it comes with directions and it's like it's so overwhelming and I just feel like there's this whole fleet of women.

[00:25:54] I know a lot of the lines now are packaging towards the youth and not middle age. They're here. We're all here and we want you to talk to us too. Exactly. Because of our age, don't act like we don't want to look beautiful

[00:26:09] and we don't want to have special stuff. So I felt like when I was talking to this other woman we were gonna create the line. They really wanted to go after the younger and I'm like, but I'm not the younger.

[00:26:20] Like why would I make a makeup line for the youth when I'm older? I'm mid-life and I'm on the back nine. And I'm there with you, I'm there with you. But yeah, sometimes it's like, so that was my whole thing. I'm like, let's make this easy.

[00:26:37] Let's make it, let's make it so you don't need a thousand products. Like I'd like to keep this it low. I'd like to come out with one thing at a time, like a little birth of something awesome and make it multi-sasking, make it,

[00:26:51] we give back one percent to the planet. We try to do other things as far as philanthropy goes. We also are vegan, cruelty free, clean as clean can be and now we're working with recycling. We're gonna be doing recycling and all this stuff,

[00:27:08] but yeah, so the first product was the blighter, which was a blush highlighter hybrid. My husband was a business major. So we went to a psychic a long time ago in a psychic told us that we should be working together and it would be successful.

[00:27:24] He didn't believe it. No, I'm kidding. I guess he did because he finally came around. He was like, we're gonna do this and it's gonna be great. And we started doing it and it's so much work. It's not, I see why everyone doesn't do it.

[00:27:39] It's very easy now it is to like, there's a lot of just put your name on something, but if you really wanna make something, they're not your product, right? That you really may exactly. Private label, right? Private label, there's a lot of brands out there

[00:27:52] that do private label and people don't even realize it's private label because why would they? I know and so everything from scratch, my husband has a company with another gentleman. One is really super artistic, my husband's good at the business. He's also really creative too,

[00:28:09] but so we all met and were like, let's do this. Each product I come out with is designed by a different artist. So the first one was YAA weller. Out of Amsterdam, the second one was Nick Mack at a London.

[00:28:22] We have Maria Ruiz coming soon, she's in Spain. We have, there's a woman in Iko from Brooklyn who's doing the next products. You know, there's a lot that goes into this. I feel like there's so many products online and it's kind of just this,

[00:28:36] let's find packaging that's cheap, let's not put much into this. Like it costs a lot of money to print four colors on a piece of plastic. I know, I can all, I mean, just here and you talk about it, just going through that journey,

[00:28:49] it seems like there was a lot that you had to put into it. And I think as people are looking at the entrepreneurial journey, did you have to make a lot of sacrifices along the way? I mean, we're hearing, of course,

[00:29:02] of the celebrity interviews and then having your own cosmetic line and I can hear just all of the wheels that had to turn to make that happen. But did you feel like you also had to sacrifice? To have this? Yeah, I mean, sacrifice in the sense

[00:29:17] of like giving up personal stuff or sacrifice. Yeah, like time, I mean, yeah, everything. I mean, I mean, fine answer. Cause you know, always say to people that you're off in your first investor. So just the sacrifice that sometimes goes into launching something, getting something out there,

[00:29:35] doing that often requires something of yes. And yes, we are self-funded and the kids don't have a heated pool, no, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I mean, we are definitely, we're self-funded. We have some, a couple investors, very small, like that just believed in the project.

[00:29:56] And so they were like, all right, we're gonna back you. Actually one of them I have to say it all out, so I think it's such a women supporting women. So have you heard of the brand's thrive cosmetics? I have for some reason it does sound familiar.

[00:30:09] Yeah, they make that amazing mascara and they have, oh, I have it actually. I do have the tea. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The tea also. When she started her line, we met and I helped her a lot

[00:30:21] because she had based the line after her friend passed away from cancer. So it was called Thrive Cosmetics. So every time somebody bought something, it was kind of that whole thing where she would give back. So she met, we met, we fell in love with each other

[00:30:37] and she was like, do you wanna create a color after your mother for the lip gloss? Cause my mom had passed from cancer and I was like, yes, we named it after my mom, Ruth, it's like one of her number one selling skews. It was so awesome.

[00:30:50] And it meant so much to me at the time because I had recently had lost my mom and so she's like, we made money. I wanna pay you and I was like, no, no, no, whatever you were gonna pay me just don't eat it.

[00:31:01] Don't eat it, it's charity. And throughout the last, whatever, seven years that we've known each other, I've put it on the front of Cosmo. I've put it on all my clients. I've put it, you know? And so she's always like, I need to get you back

[00:31:16] and I'm like, no, no, no, over COVID, she sent me peloton. She's like, you will never give you money, but I can buy your gift. And then when I told her I was launching, she's like, I'm buying the first product and I'm gonna put money into her.

[00:31:30] Yeah, so it's like, she owns a makeup line. It's like, it doesn't matter what you do if you wanna support other women, you can. That is a such a beautiful story because you gave and it goes back to the beginning of your journey

[00:31:42] where you talked about early on, it was through that giving rate that doors open. And here, fast forward, years later, you give to somebody else and believe in what they're doing and when your dream time came, she was there. Yeah, to invest in support.

[00:32:01] I mean, that is just like a full circle moment. I think as I look back then. Yeah, no, you're right. And I call her still like, I'll be like, I'm nervous because they wanna survive 50,000 of these and I'm scared because I don't learn.

[00:32:14] She's like gives me the best advice and she, I still can't believe that people like her exist but there's so many people that slam the door in our face and like said no and like don't believe in you but then there's people that do believe in you.

[00:32:27] And then there's you meaning yourself who has to believe in you. You know? I don't want everyone to think that this has been a smooth ride because look, I have my, let me bring my kids in and they can tell you how I lose my cool.

[00:32:38] I have no patience. It's not all. No. Pumpies and butterflies is what I'm saying. No, I can imagine because a lot of times we do see the glamour side of it. We see the success you've had. We see the celebrities you've interviewed.

[00:32:52] But it is a lot of hard work. What would you say to someone who's saying I wanna go down this past? What do you wish someone had shared with you because I think this is a good time to start to get into some of the wisdom

[00:33:03] you've learned done this journey. What would you say to somebody about what you hope they learn from your experience? Well, I do wanna say that if you truly love something and you're passionate about it, do not give up. Because I had no right being it.

[00:33:21] I always think I'm like the underdog because I'm like, I can't believe I'm in this, you see people and they look the part and I'm just like this girl from Maryland like not the part I really believe that if it's cliche and people say it for a reason,

[00:33:35] the whole thing about if you don't give up, you'll get there. If you really enjoy it and love it and you work really hard, you can get there also, you should start at his Instagram and a TikTok. Yeah, I mean these days,

[00:33:50] but one of my cousins actually, he started, I think that's how we got found by Ellen. He did social media video and people say it went viral, got picked up by Ellen and now he has his own show. I mean, it all started from social media,

[00:34:08] somebody seeing him. That's a way to get into, you know? And I love that. I think social media is amazing. I love it. I mean there's a lot of things that people don't like about it, but I just think it is a,

[00:34:18] it's how lucky that people have that to showcase their talents. You know, look at that story, you just told me that's amazing. I said, I look at him and I'm like, oh, no, I had a bad, I mean, it's amazing what people can do.

[00:34:31] And I love what you said about giving up and I touched on that a little bit, but also I wanted to, as we kind of wrap up this, I wanna talk about manifesting your dreams too. Like believing in yourself

[00:34:42] and there was something that you said early on like the rejection. Like there was a lot of rejection early on and I want you to touch on that, but dealing, how did you deal with that rejection to not give up and then to even go further

[00:34:57] to manifest your dreams? So I feel like, you know, in the beginning of the career, let me tell you what the rejection looks like in my business. So you go, well, this is just in the celebrity world. You know, there was a, there was rejection,

[00:35:10] there was other types of rejection in each step, but I'll just stay in that. So when you get sent out to a job, you get a call from your agent and they say, hey, you're gonna go do Jane Doe in Laguna and a gal.

[00:35:25] You're going to her house. She's going to the opening of an envelope and you are gonna get her ready for the red carpet. So you look online and try to do your due diligence, see what they look good in, see what how they wear their stuff.

[00:35:41] And then you drive to their house, you go in and it's like, it's like a blind date, you want somebody's house that you've never met before and you have a dialogue and then you touch their face and get them ready for an event.

[00:35:58] Now, just like anything, think about when you're dating, how many bad dates you have, it's the same thing. So you go, I definitely leave with comedy. So if I leave with comedy and I realize it's not being absorbed, you're like, oh, this is not bad.

[00:36:16] But, you know, young me didn't understand that, young me just took it as they didn't like me. They didn't like me. And I remember I used to come home and cry because my agent would be like, I don't think it was a match, but you know,

[00:36:30] but a bit of the sometimes you'd hear wasn't a match or you just never get called back again. But then you walk in a house and you would click with somebody there'd be like this magic. And then look, I've been doing some of these clients

[00:36:44] for over a decade. Like they become your people, you know? So I did do a lot of crying. I did do, I would go to therapy and not understand like, you know, that rejection. It was so personal to me. And in this business too, what's interesting

[00:37:00] for those of you, there's rejection at this stage in the game too because you'll be working with somebody for seven years and then all of a sudden for no reason at all ever given. There's no phone call breakup, nothing. You know everything about them,

[00:37:14] you're in their personal space. You see them naked, you see them crying. You see them happy, you see their kids, you see whatever it is, you're so intimate with these people. Literally ghost, never to be seen again. Whoa. And you have to get over that.

[00:37:30] How do you get over that? You know, it definitely stings and it used to sting so much worse but having other things like social media that make me money. You know, like at the end of the day, it hurts for many reasons.

[00:37:43] One is a paycheck too, it's your friend. You thought it was your friend. It's about diversifying your yourself. Not just having one stream of, you know, it's like if you let's say you make a do weddings. Learn special effects. Do you know what I mean?

[00:38:01] Like there's you have and that's what I feel like I've done. I have my social media audience who I love and they help me get paid on things. I have now my makeup line that I can sell. So I've like, and then I have my day job

[00:38:12] but if my husband always says like you have to free yourself, there's always gonna be rejection. And my mentors that rejected till the day with their a list number one celebrities and I'm like no one can get away from it. And it could be anything,

[00:38:26] it could be a breakup, it could be a new publicist that's like you know what? I want you to try a whole new team or there's no rhyme or reason but it's not personal. It literally is business. Ooh, that's so good to be able to remember

[00:38:38] because I could imagine how hard that was. You worked for somebody seven years and then all of a sudden they just and you're like, what happened? Was it something I said maybe I should have laughed? Yes, you know what, you know, all of your brain games go on.

[00:38:49] Yeah, crazy and you're like, and it's very, it's very sad. It's a death, it's a grief. You know, and there's still, but you said not taking that personal, you know, like you said and being able to diversify and I think that's so critical

[00:39:02] because so many times we become laser focus but now you're like celebrity makeup artists, then you, you know beauty influencer and then you have your cosmetic line. So there's always something that's feeding you and not this just one area.

[00:39:15] And I think that is so important for people to know. And one of the other things I wanted to ask you before we wrap up is, where are some of the secrets to your success in terms of your daily routine? Is there things that you do

[00:39:29] because your mindset is on point girl? I can tell that you are, you know, like you said, you lead with comedy but I can tell your energy is just vibrant and even though you were running in for this interview, you got kids yelling in the background, you know?

[00:39:45] Things are in behind but you still come with that. So what do you do to keep yourself motivated and inspired in your daily routine? Thank you. And right back at you, I would say exercise is a huge part of my daily routine. I love to exercise.

[00:40:00] I know people think that's crazy. People hate it. I love it. If I could exercise all day I would so I find things that I like to do and I do them and that sets the day for me. I would say that's the most important thing.

[00:40:15] And then of course just like, you know, I have my little journals over here. So when I feel like I'm starting to get into a negative space I try to write more, meditate. I haven't done yoga to beat but I used to be really into yoga

[00:40:28] but I have a lot of tools so when I don't feel good, I know how to get myself out of it. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And I think that's important. I think I know L.A. is hippie-dippy but I do appreciate that there's so many places

[00:40:45] to learn about yourself, to be able to find things to use so that you can cause life's hard. I mean I'm sitting up here telling you all the good stuff but life is hard. There's death, there's loss, there's heartache, there's breakups,

[00:40:59] there's failures and you had to get through them. And there's so much now that you can, there's so many people on Instagram that I love, they're like quotes and they're inspirational. And I think that's what it is. Just like, find people. Find your tribe. I believe that's it.

[00:41:13] Yeah. Find people that you like to hear them talk. Look at your friend group. Are people bringing you down? Like, I feel like, I mean my mid-40s and I feel like I am finally, like if I don't walk away from a situation feeling good about myself,

[00:41:26] those aren't my people. And I feel like I'm at an age now where I can really feel that. I can really see that and you have to protect yourself. It's all you have. So you gotta get the tools to be able to cope and then you gotta practice.

[00:41:38] You can't just go to one yoga class and be like, it's in work. It's a lot of work. It's another job. One of the final messages, it seems like if you put in the time, you stay committed. You stay the course, you give

[00:41:50] and I mean using it in a reasonable, you know, being reasonable about when you give, but it all comes full circle. And when you think about your life now, how would you describe being able to get up every day and do what you do?

[00:42:04] I am blown away with gratitude at the fact that that's my, that's how I make money that I've been able to purchase a house and pay for my kids' clothes and sports and food. And I can't believe it. I can't believe it.

[00:42:20] I think even the kids in the background. But I can't believe it. I honestly, I look at everything. I'm like, I bought all this. And I'm not saying fancy stuff. I can't even do that anymore. I can't waste my money on that kind of stuff.

[00:42:32] But I'm just saying, look, everyth all the makeup, my get is free. I'm just like, there's perks to the job. But I'm just literally proud of myself and I'm at, yeah, I'm proud of myself. Like I love that. Thank you. I'm like, I'm just real at it.

[00:42:48] No, but you know, like I said, I had my parents, the best parents, but we're very like always expecting the best. And so for a long time, I wanted there approval. And now I've got, I'm like past that and I'm like,

[00:43:01] it's me, I'm proud of myself for doing this. And I'm really content. Like I just want to have this great line and keep making things for women and connecting with women, just like you and everyone in your audience. And then just like continue that way and just live

[00:43:16] and it's fun doing it. Yeah, giving back. In the as we wrap up, I have my final question, but also what you to tell where we can get the makeup line because I know people are hearing that.

[00:43:25] So I want to make sure people know where they can go out and purchase and support you. But then I want you to end with what is the best piece of advice that you've received on this journey? So you can go to jamemakeup.com

[00:43:36] and you can follow me at jamemakeup on Twitter. I mean, no, I'm not on Twitter. At jamemakeup on Instagram, at jamemakeup on Facebook and of course TikTok. When you can buy everything at jamemakeup.com and the best advice ever given to me throughout my entire career was is,

[00:43:57] be yourself. That's all good. You know what? Somebody tells that in another episode. So that is so good. And it's a reminder about the power of authenticity. Amen. Showing up. Well, jamemakeup you have been a little light. I've learned so much.

[00:44:11] Barack has said and talked to you all day on the couch. I know. Can we hang out? You know what? I know what you're talking about. You. You're not talking about you. You know what about me? Who cares?

[00:44:21] But yes, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. I really had fun. What was your biggest hum moment from today's show? For me, it was the power of giving and how giving can sometimes open the door to new opportunities.

[00:44:37] Well, it's a fine line. It has worked for me on several occasions when I first started out. The key is knowing when and how much to give. If you are inspired by the women you hear on my podcast,

[00:44:49] please share this with a friend, subscribe to the show and leave a review. Your support will help more people find us. To learn more about our guests of visit she's bigtidegown.com. Thank you so much for listening.